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Young Geoffrey Dissed! - The Annals of Young Geoffrey: Hope brings a turtle [entries|archive|friends|userinfo]
Young Geoffrey

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Young Geoffrey Dissed! [Dec. 28th, 2004|04:43 pm]
Young Geoffrey
Young Geoffrey Dissed!
Girlfriend Leaps to His Defence!


Well, that was interesting - if more stressful than it should have been. After years of experience with flame-wars, I still find they pump more adrenaline into my system than they ought.

It all started with my ego (as what, in this world, Gentle Readers, does not?). I requested a review of my journal, curious as to what random strangers might make of my words.

Didn't find out. I did find out that my relationship with Laura is so appalling to some people that they could not get past it. I am a dirty old man, she at once a victim and a slut. And so, yes, I was unable to keep myself from responding and thus wasted far more of my precious time there than I should have. And so, Laura leapt to my (and her) defence, sparking a battle in another journal entirely.

Still, I suppose I enjoyed the exercise.

* * *

My "Christmas" has been mostly restful. I had 5 days off - mostly: I was on call, Web's pager with me at all times. Fortunately, there have been no disasters, so I haven't had to go into the office. I have answered a few emails and returned some phonecalls, but didn't have to spend a lot of time at it. With luck, tomorrow will be a quiet day, so that I can work on my site (which isn't as slackerish as that sounds; I want to learn to use .css files and what better way to practice that new skill than with a site that doesn't belong to a client?).

Still, I've needed the break and, if I haven't accomplished all that I had hoped to, I am well-rested and optimistic about the coming year.
linkReply

Comments:
[User Picture]From: ed_rex
2004-12-28 10:19 pm (UTC)
Don't yell at me Sidra! I fixed the HTML! :)
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[User Picture]From: fadefromnothing
2004-12-28 10:31 pm (UTC)
How dare you! You don't get the benefit of being considered a 'dirty old man' by me, if you repeatedly pick on me as such.

You young'uns need to learn to let simple things go. Honestly.





If it's any consolation, I tend to talk discuss your relationship (with anonymity, of course)with quite a few people I know so as to clear up any misconceptions people may have about what it takes to have a successful relationship.

Laura and yourself make quite possibly one of the most adorable (and successful) couples I've had the pleasure of knowing about.

Hence I insist that your gentle reader see some cutesty couple pictures eventually.

"Daddy"? I commonly refer to my boy as my beloved pedophile quite a bit, even though he's not quite 4 years my senior.
It's all good, as long as its consensual :)

Take care of yourself and Laura, dear.
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[User Picture]From: sabotabby
2004-12-28 11:37 pm (UTC)
Hehehe; dude thinks that Laura isn't real. I was going to leave a comment attesting to the fact that I've met her, but it's on friends-only. I bet she liked that one, though.

For the record, it's quite an interesting flamewar from a feminist perspective -- as is often the case, there's a level of condescension mixed in with puritanism (as you pointed out) mixed in with just plain sexism. All of these well-meaning people trying to prove that they're out for the rights of this poor, innocent "child", then slipping up and attacking her when they realize she's an actual person and not some abstract concept.

Also, you know when I call you a dirty old man, I mean it in the fondest sense, right?
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[User Picture]From: ed_rex
2004-12-29 06:02 pm (UTC)
Hehehe; dude thinks that Laura isn't real.

Yeah, that was too much. I need to grow up and not let that kind of stupidity bother me enough to respond; it's an incredible waste of time.

But fun - and I think I now understand why you are forever sharing your battles with your Gentle Readers.

For the record, it's quite an interesting flamewar from a feminist perspective -- as is often the case, there's a level of condescension mixed in with puritanism (as you pointed out) mixed in with just plain sexism. All of these well-meaning people trying to prove that they're out for the rights of this poor, innocent "child", then slipping up and attacking her when they realize she's an actual person and not some abstract concept.

I'd missed the sexism, but you're quite right; turning on the (female) "victim" is really quite classic, isn't it?

Also, you know when I call you a dirty old man, I mean it in the fondest sense, right?

Er, yeah, I guess so. (He said, only now aware that she does so refer to him by that term.)
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[User Picture]From: stolen_identity
2004-12-29 01:02 am (UTC)
holy crap.
that's insane.
(and the fact that i read through each of those comments certainly says a lot about me too...)

sadly enough, what those people don't get is that you and laura possibly have one of the most solid relationships i've ever had the pleasure of reading about.
and if it means anything to you... i never would've met you for drinks if i thought you were a dirty old man ;) haha
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[User Picture]From: ed_rex
2004-12-29 06:04 pm (UTC)
(and the fact that i read through each of those comments certainly says a lot about me too...)

Though I pride myself on not being a rubbernecker, sometimes ugly things just insist on being stared at.

and if it means anything to you... i never would've met you for drinks if i thought you were a dirty old man ;)

It does, actually. We should do it again some time.
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[User Picture]From: ellie_elephant
2004-12-29 04:10 am (UTC)
Well, I think you *are* disgusting you dirty old perve!


:D Ahahahahaha.... I can't believe you were brave enough to face those beasts at ljreviewz. Not only do I find the whole concept pathetic, but the 'z' at the end of ljreviewz really pisses off my inner grammer/spelling checker. Grrrrr...

I've read some of their comments to other people's journals with a sort of morbid fascination (as with yours - I particularly love the way they were getting so indignant and self-righteous - especially the guy/girl? at the end going something along the lines of "You RACIST PIG, man!!" for an unfathomable reason - besides the fact that you said "you people", which is almost the same as screaming "Nigger" nowadays around here - Christ, we can't even speak normally anymore due to excessive PC-ness. It's like whenever I try to defend gay rights to my friends and they all jump to conclusions:
FRIEND: OMFG! You're an evil lesbian!!
ME: No. Sorry to disappoint.
FRIEND: OMFG! That means you're a bisexual!!
ME: No.
FRIEND: OMFG! That means you're an EVIL HOMOPHOBIC!!

But... that's kinda off topic. As for you and Laura - I'm not in a position to judge you since I hardly know you at all, and I don't know her beside the fact that she has a tattoo on her cunt (which is incidentally, the first thing the ljreviewz beasts picked up on - do they have no concept of the word 'personality? Or were they just jealous cuz they wanted a cunt tattoo, too?)

I'm actually a peer mentor at my school, and I have to be honest, if one of the teens I was counselling was seeing a man nearly forty, I'd have to report it to a teacher and they'd handle the situation - however, I counsel kids that are 16 and younger, and it also depends on the maturity of the teenager. I know girls at 19 who act like 13 year olds, and I know girls at 15 who act so grown up that its intimidating.

And to be completely honest, me and my friends would cringe if we heard someone we know going out with a man that much older... but the only old men available to date on this island, besides teachers, are pervy old tourists who tour the bars and the whores, and since I go to a strict and prestigious private school, not many girls go out with these sorts of men (there are one or two, but they really *are* sluts, since one is 14 and the other is 15, and they've already run through most of the guys at the school). We've all had crushes on teachers your age, and if George Clooney or Brad Pitt, who are both in their late thirties, ever gave us a chance for a shag, we'd jump 'em ;)

So, yeah, you're right - personality counts most. As for coolness - I've learned that most 'cool' guys are complete idiots. I'm looking forward to my wild 20s when I can have lots of affairs with older and educated men :D

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From: (Anonymous)
2004-12-29 05:34 am (UTC)
Hi weirdo.
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[User Picture]From: sooguy
2004-12-29 04:23 am (UTC)
Gah, I only had the stomach to read about half the shit they were posting in that "review" of your journal.

I am a little saddened you fell for the bane of LJ the dreaded RATING COMMUNITY. It's highschool cliques in disguise no matter how they try to dress it up. They get off on judging other people and conforming.

Just so you know I am not immune to the lure of acceptance either, I once fell for a rating community too. I got flamed by some 15 year old writer that dissed the piece I submitted.

You don't need a community to tell you that your writing is above average when it comes to LJ. You're readers can vouche for that.

As for your relationship with Laura, last time I looked you were both consenting adults under Canadian Law, so those moral purists in that community should get stuffed. Just because someone objects to the fact that they wouldn't let their daughter do the "shit" Laura is doing, that doesn't give them the right to judge her.

Gah, do me a favour and make a new year's resolution to avoid rating communities.
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[User Picture]From: ed_rex
2004-12-29 06:14 pm (UTC)
I am a little saddened you fell for the bane of LJ the dreaded RATING COMMUNITY. It's highschool cliques in disguise no matter how they try to dress it up. They get off on judging other people and conforming.

Yes, evidently this group is. I still like the idea, though; there are so many journals here that I wouldn't mind being steered towards interesting ones. (Hmm, here's an idea: someone should start a community that only posts positive journal reviews - in other words, recommends journals worth reading while ignoring the rest. Any takers?)

Also, I was - and remain - curious as to what people think of my work, whether my journal-ing, or my fiction. Obviously, most of my Gentle Readers enjoy my work - it's a self-selected group - so putting it out there for random strangers to consider has its appeal.

(No promises on the resolution - but I'll try to abstain from forcing it upon the rest of you.)
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[User Picture]From: beable
2004-12-29 05:31 am (UTC)

While I have to admit I am somewhat weirded out by the you and Laura thing, it is abundantly clear from both your posts that you are both happy with it, and that is what it comes down to, your (both of your choices).

But holy shit, while I didn't read on long enough to see if anyone invoked Godwin's Law, the flames were sure getting ugleee!
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[User Picture]From: ed_rex
2004-12-29 06:17 pm (UTC)
Being weirded out doesn't bother me a bit - if you went on to call me and, especially, Laura names, then it would. Hell, there are times when I'm somewhat weirded out.

No one did invoke Godwin's Law, but I was tempted to do something along those lines.
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From: (Anonymous)
2004-12-29 06:02 am (UTC)
You should apply to the_reviewers. They're more sophisticated than those snotty kids at ljreviews.
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From: patriarch420
2004-12-29 04:57 pm (UTC)

..

*Sniffle, tear*

Thanks for stroking our egos, "Gentle Readers"...I think Geoffy (and, perhaps even myself) might have needed it after that sort of sass.

Normal I think myself above getting in catty fights like the one I couldn't manage to restrain myself from...*especially* over the internet!! But maybe I'll just blame it on the fact that most people suck. They're hypocritical, simplistic, puritanical (ass miss_negativity and Geoff concurred), not to mention that they can't seem to think "out-of-their-OH!-so-sheltered-box."

On a completely seperate note:

HAPPY NEW YEAR!!

xoxo much love

-laura
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[User Picture]From: ed_rex
2004-12-29 06:23 pm (UTC)

Re: ..

Thanks for stroking our egos, "Gentle Readers"...I think Geoffy (and, perhaps even myself) might have needed it after that sort of sass.

There were some pretty nice things said, weren't there, my sweet? Though I'm still a little nervous about being held up as an ideal - what about you?

Just as well you (mostly) stayed out of it - they would have ignored anything you said in favour of one of two theories: (a) that I "persuaded" you to stick up for me or (b) that you're not real in the first place.
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From: patriarch420
2004-12-29 05:17 pm (UTC)
So, I just spent another 20 minutes reading *ALL* those comments... "THOSE PEOPLE" are incredulous!! and it's frustrating as fuck not being able to reply to any of the comments because im not a member and the process takes too goddamn long :(
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[User Picture]From: ed_rex
2004-12-29 06:24 pm (UTC)
It's not worth it sweetie (though it actually wouldn't take much time to "join" if you really want to get into a war with those people).

We still on for Friday?


Love,

g
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From: enamorednymphet
2004-12-30 03:06 am (UTC)

ljreviewz

I've read some of them, and I found no further point to read the rest. I have had my journal rated once with the hopes that I will receive mature ratings and advice so I may gain fresh perspectives on my journal. I think you already knew what kind of helpful and relevant advices I received from them. In a way they're quite sad, wasting their time to look at others' journal in their most critical point of view and trying hard to be bitter with their comments. I didn't even bother to write a reply to any one of them (Though I was quite tempted).

"Judge not lest ye be judged" (or something like that. I need to read my bible more carefully.)
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[User Picture]From: ed_rex
2004-12-30 03:14 pm (UTC)

Re: ljreviewz

I think you already knew what kind of helpful and relevant advices I received from them.

I seem to recall they didn't really review it, so much as point out you didn't have the required number of posts - or am I thinking of someone else?

As to judgement, I have no problem with it - so long as it is done honestly.
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From: 10021
2004-12-31 08:22 pm (UTC)
The all time best was the person who tried to claim that Laura was a figment of your imagination. As if you'd allow a figment to call you Geoffy!

When I first realized Laura's age, I, too, found it hard to believe such a mature 17 year old existed. Most teens I know, in fact, most people I know, don't seem to have their heads screwed on as well as this young woman.

I also initially assumed that there must be "something wrong with her" to be attracted to someone so much older. Mind you, I'm not calling you old, I think we're around the same age. I've found (through your online interaction with her) that Laura is certainly not some poor little Lolita. Your relationship is complex and dynamic, and she is not a victim. She doesn't strike me as the type of woman who would allow herself to be victimized.

The difference, though, between me and those nasty reviewers, is that I actually was willing to admit that my preconceptions were wrong. Faced with the overwhelming evidence that is Laura's commentary, I now know a little better than mature people can be found inside teen bodies, just as well as immature people being found in middle-aged bodies.

I didn't have to go to Laura's journal to make these observations of her, it was sufficient to see her interaction with you in your own journal. I believe those reviewers went well beyond their scope when they examined her personal journal. I followed the link they made to the infamous tattoo entry, Christ, that was something like August, wasn't it? That's a little above and beyond the call for a review of your journal.

As to your initial quest to have your journal reviewed, if that's stil what you want, I wish you luck. I'm not a fan of rating communities of any sort, but I know some folks find them useful.
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[User Picture]From: ed_rex
2005-01-01 10:50 pm (UTC)
The all time best was the person who tried to claim that Laura was a figment of your imagination. As if you'd allow a figment to call you Geoffy!

Yeah, he was too much; he pretty much destroyed what little interest I had left in that "debate". (And you're right about the Geoffy thing; there's no way in hell I'd have come up with that on my own.

I, too, found it hard to believe such a mature 17 year old existed. Most teens I know, in fact, most people I know, don't seem to have their heads screwed on as well as this young woman.

I think the key is that "most people" are not nearly as interesting, nor do they have their heads as together as does Laura. Her self-awareness in particular is almost awe-inspiring.

But enough about Laura.

At the risk of sounding pretentious and/or condescending, it's people like you - who are willing to reconsider their views (yes, I like to count myself among them) - that give me hope for our all-too-often laughable species.

I hadn't really thought before about their nerve in not only checking out Laura's journal, but in publicizing it, when she had not put herself up for judgement; pretty fucking low, when you come down to it.

As for the rating communities, I don't like the clique-ishness, but their info page fooled me into thinking I might get some serious critiques of my words. (More fool me: I've taken up anonymous' suggestion and asked for more abuse, this time from the_reviewers. We'll see how that goes.)
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[User Picture]From: wickedgiggle
2005-01-01 12:50 pm (UTC)

Hello

I found you through reading some older posts in the youcantwrite community after applying. I find it slightly coincidental that your girlfriend's name is Laura... because that is my name as well, and I uh... have a uh... but of a history for dipping into the upper end of the age-pool. I lost my virginity to a 51 year old.

Anyways... being that you're 39... eh... I'd say it's not bad for her. If she's able to manage it without too much drama, you're probably young enough not to cause too much damage in her head. Two years ago I'd have said that it couldn't hurt her in the least! But er, I've kind of suffered from my experiences with older men. I can't even hug my father without feeling weird anymore, and every older man that is even slightly kind to me is suddenly an old pervert trying to get into my pants.

But again 51 and 16 vs. 39 and 17 is a difference.

Anyway, I just felt I should reply... because I did.

Hello.
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[User Picture]From: ed_rex
2005-01-01 11:07 pm (UTC)

Re: Hello

Hello Laura, thanks for dropping by.

I hope I am not - and won't be - causing any damage to her head or any other part of her.

I suspect this isn't the place to inquire as to the details of your experience with older men, but I'll say it sounds as if you were in some way taken advantage of. If true (and for what little it's worth), I'm sorry for it.

That said, there are nasty people out there of all ages - though among those who go after much younger women, I suspect the percentage is significantly higher.

Thanks for the reply in any case; feel free to drop in again.

P.S. Congratulations on the snow - I thought snow in Houston was a once-in-50-years sort of thing.
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[User Picture]From: taricorim
2005-01-01 08:45 pm (UTC)
I don't like being seventeen. Seventeen is an impatient year. It's still seven months to my eighteenth birthday (when, y'know, I will become a Human Being and not a Girl Child), and I'm practically counting down already. I imagine I'll be frothing at the mouth from anticipation come June.

One of my (less orthodox) teachers once said to me, "I really feel sorry for girls your age -- you can't find any man within your age range whose intelligence and maturity level are even remotely comparable to yours. So, unless you date a paedophile or tolerate an imbecile, you'll just have to be celibate until you're thirty."

I'm sure there do exist emotionally mature and intelligent 17 to 20-year-old boys to whom I might potentially be attracted, but I haven't had the fortune of meeting any. So, although I don't plan on actively going out to find myself a 30-year-old boyfriend, I have to admit that there are definite merits to the so-called May/December relationships. Hell, I'll even admit I'm often jealous when you talk about Laura -- I doubt any seventeen-year-old I could go out with would talk about me like that.

I also have to wonder, would they have condemned you so badly if she were a year older? There seems to be some idea that the magical elixir of epiphany is handed to you when you're eighteen. If only that were true! Then the world wouldn't be so full of stupid adults who believe that their age alone is enough to validate any sort of ridiculous opinion they might wish to express.

Age of consent is fourteen in Ontario, twelve if the age difference is less than two years. A perfectly reasonable limit, I think.

(Wait, am I the Gentle Reader who complains that you're nauseating?)
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[User Picture]From: ed_rex
2005-01-01 11:24 pm (UTC)
Except for the fact that I was far too insecure to tell the women/girls I was interested in that I was interested, I mostly quite liked being 17. It was a very adventurous year for me. I moved out on my own; bicycled from Toronto to Sudbury, then took a train to Winnipeg and cycled from the to (almost) Edmonton; spent time in Rockies and made family connections that had been broken since before I could remember. (That I had a crush on my cycling partner was a downer, but that was who I was, then.) For various reasons, I guess is the point, I didn't look forward to 18 - for all practical purposes, I already (felt I) was.

But I digress.

And I agree with you, not your teacher - there are intelligent and mature boys out there (at least, there were when I was your age). It might be worth keeping in mind that at least some of them may be very insecure, to the point where you don't even know that they might be interested in you.

One thing I have had confirmed over the years, though: while age is not "just a number", it is only one of many factors that goes into determining whether any given two people will get along - whether just for a while or for a significant period of time.

The key is to pay attention to warning signals - if someone lies to you; if he is possessive or controlling; if he shows signs of being violent, stay away, no matter what other qualities he may have. I have twice gotten badly hurt "explaining away" things I would have spotted in an instant if they had come from someone else's partner.

I also have to wonder, would they have condemned you so badly if she were a year older?

I suspect that those people would have; a couple of them expressed such visceral "ewwww" kind of reactions that I think any gap over (maybe) 10 years would appal them (the fact that Laura is under 18, of course, only made it that much worse in their eyes).

Age of consent is fourteen in Ontario, twelve if the age difference is less than two years. A perfectly reasonable limit, I think.

I agree - though with (largely irrational) reservations when it comes to my neice, who turned 14 this past summer. (I didn't know about the twelve limit; it makes sense.)

(Wait, am I the Gentle Reader who complains that you're nauseating?)

If you did, I missed it. That reference came from cool_hand89 with whom I have been friends for - god help me - more than a quarter of a century.
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