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Drama drama drama! - The Annals of Young Geoffrey: Hope brings a turtle [entries|archive|friends|userinfo]
Young Geoffrey

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Drama drama drama! [Apr. 13th, 2011|11:42 am]
Young Geoffrey
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My friends,

These are dark days for freedom of expression on the Livejournal group, canpolitik and I am here to plead for your support in a just (if not especially important) cause!

As some of you may have noticed (I sometimes wonder how many of you still actually read my meanderings. But I digress), I've been writing a bit about the ongoing federal election. (If you haven't noticed, then shame on you! Young Geoffrey feels hurthurthurt!)

Ahem.

I've been cross-posting entries of The Droz Report here and to a few other spots on LJ and elsewhere. Not always to everyone's approval. (Including, I strongly suspect, some of the folks who banned me from that hot-bed of radical activism, canadianleft. The claim is that I ought not to cross-post entries from Edifice Rex Online because that is *gasp* some form of naked self-promotion.

Apparently, to some of the denizens there, it is just fine to post links to third parties — newspapers, &ct — along with a paragraph or two expressing outrage or agreement, but not to linking to an actual thesis made of one's own words and ideas.

Anyway, there is now a poll up there, asking whether I ought to be allowed to continue in my nefarious ways. And I am losing badly. Since you are a nefarious bunch, I figured you might want to leap into action in order to right the scales of this hideous injustice. (Ahem.)

A couple of folks over there wondered whether I had any sock-puppets I could throw into the fray. I do have a couple of other LJ accounts, but would frankly feel rather sleazy pretending to be someone else in order to vote for myself. Real people, on the other hand ...

Therefore, Gentle Readers, I urge you to Vote Yes! on Poll #1729179 Edifice Rex, "I think ed_rex should continue cross posting articles from his blog."
linkReply

Comments:
[User Picture]From: ungarsfragile
2011-04-13 03:48 pm (UTC)
Sigh.

This isn't a witch hunt, and you're not to be burned at the stake of popular opinion.

That poll has one purpose- to show you how unpopular your posts have been and demonstrate in a tangible way how many complaints I've gotten about them.
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[User Picture]From: ed_rex
2011-04-13 04:10 pm (UTC)

"Sigh" indeed

This isn't a witch hunt, and you're not to be burned at the stake of popular opinion.

This isn't a witch hunt, and you're not to be burned at the stake of popular opinion.

Well, d'uh.

I don't suppose it should surprise me at all that in only your second sentence you attribute to me words and concepts which are no where to be found in what I actually wrote, or that your sense of humour seems to be missing in action.

Meanwhile, I find it instructive to note the difference between your disinterested tone above the poll itself, which you launched by saying, "Rather than directly interject, I figured we should let the community speak" and the one you show here.

"That poll has one purpose- to show you how unpopular your posts have been ..." (Emphasis is mine.)

Of course, when I was being labelled an anti-semite, your response was to lecture me on the difference between "libel" and "slander", so I should have known where your bias lies.
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[User Picture]From: ungarsfragile
2011-04-13 04:19 pm (UTC)

Re: "Sigh" indeed

Well then, do you realize that it's kind of pointless to shill up the votes? It may make you feel better, perhaps, but distorting the poll with entries from people who aren't members of the community doesn't really alter the result.. Why on earth would you want to keep posting articles in a community where people, at a two-to-one margin, don't want to read them?
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[User Picture]From: ed_rex
2011-04-13 04:26 pm (UTC)

Re: "Sigh" indeed

What is your point? You didn't address a single thing I said, nor did you explain the difference between what you said when you posted the poll and what you said here? If you won't answer my questions, why should I answer yours?
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[User Picture]From: ungarsfragile
2011-04-13 04:34 pm (UTC)

Re: "Sigh" indeed

I very rarely need to get involved with the canpolitik crowd- maybe once a year at the most. for the most part, it's self-policing.

I've been getting multiple complaints every time you make an edifice rex cross-post. So I figured rather than being heavy handed, I could gauge community reaction in real time, while simultaneously demonstrating that your posts have been unpopular.

To get to the point, then- I figured you could take a hint if the community demonstrated they didn't want you to continue cross posting from your blog.
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[User Picture]From: ed_rex
2011-04-14 07:46 pm (UTC)

Re: "Sigh" indeed

... maybe once a year at the most. for the most part, it's self-policing.

I don't doubt that it is. Most people who get accused of posting anti-semitic screeds are probably smarter than I am and find pastures where it's actually considered poor form to slander and/or libel people.
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[User Picture]From: sooguy
2011-04-13 10:24 pm (UTC)
Who doesn't love a good old-fashioned shunning.

"That poll has one purpose- to show you how unpopular your posts have been and demonstrate in a tangible way how many complaints I've gotten about them."

Oh and my favourite

"Why on earth would you want to keep posting articles in a community where people, at a two-to-one margin, don't want to read them?"

I read through the thread and don't get it. There seems to be about three different opinions on why you should or shouldn't post an entire blog post (recycled) from your own site. Some seem contradictory in the resolution.

This is why I am part of so few active communities on LJ these days. Everyone wants to start a club, but no one wants to deal with managing it especially when it goes against what you want it to be.

Good luck. Personally, I wouldn't have the energy or the heart to duke it out.

Edited at 2011-04-13 10:25 pm (UTC)
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[User Picture]From: ed_rex
2011-04-14 07:37 pm (UTC)

Nor do I, really

read through the thread and don't get it.

I don't really get it either. I've occasionally had the same objection elsewhere, but only in Canada has it gotten significant traction.

Good luck. Personally, I wouldn't have the energy or the heart to duke it out.

Thanks. But I think I've thrown about as many punches in that fight as I'm going to. I might stick around and comment occasionally, if only to make sure that ghostwes (hi ghostwes!) keeps lurking here, just because I'm petty that way.

Meanwhile, I take solace in the fact that Doctor Who is soon to return and, particularly if I don't like the new edition, I can generate 100s of comments on the LJ group devoted to the show, without a complain about cross-posting to be seen.
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[User Picture]From: silverflight8
2011-04-14 01:33 am (UTC)
...I still don't understand why it's not okay. *headtilt* I don't read the comm, so maybe I'm missing something, but I thought that it's okay (on LJ in general, I suppose) to cross-post, and to say "More stuff on my journal etc"...?

*is glad not to be heavily invested in politics of any type*
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[User Picture]From: ed_rex
2011-04-14 07:40 pm (UTC)

Me neither

I keep coming back to the fact they don't object linking to third-party articles to support their points, but get the Depends all knotted up with I link to my own work.

*is glad not to be heavily invested in politics of any type*

Believe me, these sort of bunfights can happen all over the place, not just in political groups!
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[User Picture]From: abomvubuso
2011-04-14 01:01 pm (UTC)
A comm which allows such brotherly trials to happen makes me feel... uncomfortable, to say the least. They really put that to vote? "Should we allow this or that guy to post"? WTF.

Also, cross-posting is cool, especially when its your words you're referring to, as is the case.
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[User Picture]From: ed_rex
2011-04-14 07:44 pm (UTC)

It *is* kinda weird

A comm which allows such brotherly trials to happen makes me feel... uncomfortable...

They really did put it to a vote, yes. Or rather, the moderator, (ungarsfragile, who has also popped in here, did. What I find extra galling, was that he did nothing but correct me on the difference between "libel" and "slander" when one of the regulars mistook me for someone else and started telling people I had a history of anti-semitic and anti-French Canadian posts.

(I suppose it goes without saying I'm onside with cross-posting!)
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[User Picture]From: abomvubuso
2011-04-14 07:51 pm (UTC)

Re: It *is* kinda weird

Yes, i understand. However, i'd like to add a slight condition to cross-posting. Its cool when you share your piece of work in its entirety. Not some bits of it serving as a bait and then a redirection to the main body of the work which has been published elsewhere. I can understand the argument that some people are making that many of them dont like reading the intro to a story, and then essentially being told to "just click here for the rest of it". I wouldnt feel comfortable having that on TP either, to be entirely frank with you.

Maybe if you could place the whole story, no matter how long it is, that would be perfect.

Apart from that, i disagree with the idea of a comrade trial. Of course there'd possibly be a majority which would either disagree with your posts or be for some reason disinterested in reading them - should they impose their will on the minority who dont have a problem with reading them? I dont think thats how democracy is supposed to work, be it even an online democracy.
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[User Picture]From: ed_rex
2011-04-14 09:07 pm (UTC)

Re: It *is* kinda weird

I wouldnt feel comfortable having that on TP either, to be entirely frank with you.

Presuming the poster (er, me) is ready and willing to follow up and engage with comments, I don't understand the objection. After all, it takes only one click more (presuming a reader wants to read the full piece) to reply within a community than it would with an LJ cut. Just close the new browser window and — poof! you can hit the reply button.

Just as an example, a post I made to the DoctorWho community a while back, using the exact same methods, generated more than 400 comments on the community itself.

My other argument is simply that I am, however haphazardly, attempting to build an audience for my writing in general, and that that kind of teaser/cross-posting is something that I look at as a win/win. (Of course, if everyone hates me for it, I should probably re-think my strategy.)

But I think the doctorwho example is a strong argument that my methods don't harm the communities in which I post.

I dont think thats how democracy is supposed to work, be it even an online democracy.

Well, LJ communities aren't democracies, of course, they are dictatorships of the owners, who may or may not choose to take advice from their subjects members.

In this case, my latest post here has caused at least one person to call for my complete banishment.
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[User Picture]From: abomvubuso
2011-04-14 10:15 pm (UTC)

Re: It *is* kinda weird

Could it be also that they feel intimidated by the fact that you may've dominated the discourse in terms of sheer number of posts, i.e. you've saturated the place with your posts? I'm sorry that i'm asking so many questions but i'm not familiar with the place, while i'm genuinely interested about such things, myself being on the TP staff and all.
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[User Picture]From: ed_rex
2011-04-14 10:53 pm (UTC)

Re: It *is* kinda weird

Good grief! Don't be sorry! I like argument and debate!

On Canpolitik, I don't think the volume of my posts is the problem; it's no TP, but it's a reasonably active (if not nearly so erudite) community.

Actually, I have no evidence to support it, but I've had a sneaking suspicion that part of the hostility I've evoked is due to my own erudition. I know you guys (at TP) sometimes impress the hell out of me, to the point where I very much want to feel certain anything I post measures up in terms of quality of both prose and analysis. So it's occurred to me that folks who consider and a like saying, in effect, "I think this is awful!" might find my 1200 word essays somewhat off-putting.
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[User Picture]From: abomvubuso
2011-04-15 07:05 am (UTC)

Re: It *is* kinda weird

Hehe :) Most of the time we just blow hot air out our asses. Okay, nicely packed hot air, but hot air nevertheless :p

But srsly - what always matters most is the essence of the post/opinion, not so much the form.
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[User Picture]From: ed_rex
2011-04-15 03:16 pm (UTC)

Re: It *is* kinda weird

I think you're being modest (I hope you're being modest; else I risk looking like a fool). I don't often comment, but I find the stuff by the likes of pannokha, ddstory, airiefairie and, yes, yourself, actually teach me things about places and events I know very little about. And even the U.S. centric discussions tend to be on a significantly higher-than-internet-norm level.

Anyway, this is getting a little sickening, don't you think? :)
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[User Picture]From: abomvubuso
2011-04-15 04:50 pm (UTC)

Re: It *is* kinda weird

I usually learn things mostly from mahnmut, htpcl, telemann etc.
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